Interview / MAKE ME work
With Kirsten Spuijbroek and Jelmer Noordeman (Studio ZWARD)
How did Studio ZWARD come about?
Kirsten: I graduated from the department of product design of ArtEZ Arnhem with a collection of mourning jewels. It did relatively well; the work was sold, bought and published. But I want to be able to earn a living from my work. I am from a family of entrepreneurs and for me being your own boss is a natural thing. With ZWARD, Jelmer and I have created the opportunity to produce commercially attractive jewels. This means that we sell more jewels and that we can remain independent.
How did Studio ZWARD come about?
Kirsten: I graduated from the department of product design of ArtEZ Arnhem with a collection of mourning jewels. It did relatively well; the work was sold, bought and published. But I want to be able to earn a living from my work. I am from a family of entrepreneurs and for me being your own boss is a natural thing. With ZWARD, Jelmer and I have created the opportunity to produce commercially attractive jewels. This means that we sell more jewels and that we can remain independent.
Jelmer: I am an illustrator and I was trained in Rotterdam. We started Studio ZWARD as a couple. Besides jewellery we also develop other projects. For instance, we designed a carpet for a company, and we designed a pot for a new label produced in China.
Can you tell us about your collaboration?
Jelmer: Everyone is good at something. We make use of the best of both worlds. The positive aspect is that you pull one another along, but you are also responsible for one another. If things go well, it is an easier way of working. It also helps our work reach a broader audience.
Kirsten: Working with someone is something I can strongly recommend since it pushes your work to a higher level. The creative process is shaped like a funnel, so at such a moment it is handy to work together. To begin with Jelmer and I gather a lot of inspiration and information. Too much to use, so we have to filter. Somewhere half way through our research this process is repeated. We then often have such a heap of samples that are not all usable, so we have to filter them again. In the end, when a collection is almost ready, we throw a last critical eye on the result, after which we filter once more. Within a partnership these filtering processes occur faster and more easily, among others because you can argue verbally. Your partner has to be someone who complements you, or your opposite. Not someone who finds everything great or terrible.
Jelmer: Everyone is good at something. We make use of the best of both worlds. The positive aspect is that you pull one another along, but you are also responsible for one another. If things go well, it is an easier way of working. It also helps our work reach a broader audience.
Kirsten: Working with someone is something I can strongly recommend since it pushes your work to a higher level. The creative process is shaped like a funnel, so at such a moment it is handy to work together. To begin with Jelmer and I gather a lot of inspiration and information. Too much to use, so we have to filter. Somewhere half way through our research this process is repeated. We then often have such a heap of samples that are not all usable, so we have to filter them again. In the end, when a collection is almost ready, we throw a last critical eye on the result, after which we filter once more. Within a partnership these filtering processes occur faster and more easily, among others because you can argue verbally. Your partner has to be someone who complements you, or your opposite. Not someone who finds everything great or terrible.
Does ZWARD tie in with your individual work?
Jelmer: My own work looks very ‘full’. I put all I can into it. ZWARD is more casual and more stylized.
Kirsten: My research focuses on the material and techniques, and I ultimately want a single form. Jelmer is more for ‘a lot’, with a graphic eye for form and colour. He is also somewhat stronger as regards concept. During my studies the concept had to be completely sound, and only then could you get to work. Jelmer is not like that. For him you can move away from the rule.
Jelmer: You need the question and the answer. I do not need any answers.
Kirsten: We also take advantage of the fact that Jelmer is very strong graphically. Our packages are screen-printed with his work. In any case, the design is very important, whether of the jewel or the presentation. The photographs, the website, the presentations and invitations have to be right.
Jelmer: My own work looks very ‘full’. I put all I can into it. ZWARD is more casual and more stylized.
Kirsten: My research focuses on the material and techniques, and I ultimately want a single form. Jelmer is more for ‘a lot’, with a graphic eye for form and colour. He is also somewhat stronger as regards concept. During my studies the concept had to be completely sound, and only then could you get to work. Jelmer is not like that. For him you can move away from the rule.
Jelmer: You need the question and the answer. I do not need any answers.
Kirsten: We also take advantage of the fact that Jelmer is very strong graphically. Our packages are screen-printed with his work. In any case, the design is very important, whether of the jewel or the presentation. The photographs, the website, the presentations and invitations have to be right.
Why is that important?
Kirsten: It influences the public’s reactions a lot. If you have a nice presentation, then that will stand out. We do everything ourselves, because we find that important.
Jelmer: It is often in the details. We like a strict design, but it also has to be ‘lively’.
Kirsten: It influences the public’s reactions a lot. If you have a nice presentation, then that will stand out. We do everything ourselves, because we find that important.
Jelmer: It is often in the details. We like a strict design, but it also has to be ‘lively’.
Neither of you has a background in jewellery design and yet jewels are now the main product in your activity…
Kirsten: I think that not having followed a training in jewellery design is an advantage. I see a substantial difference between our jewels and those of other designers. They rest on another sort of design. I generally do not understand the work of jewellery designers either. I often fail to grasp the concept and I generally do not find it readable enough. I also often find the production process too intricate.
Jelmer: We look for new possibilities, but we sometimes think that it would have been handy to have that technical knowledge.
Kirsten: You look for other solutions, but that can sometimes be a struggle due to the lack of knowledge.
Kirsten: I think that not having followed a training in jewellery design is an advantage. I see a substantial difference between our jewels and those of other designers. They rest on another sort of design. I generally do not understand the work of jewellery designers either. I often fail to grasp the concept and I generally do not find it readable enough. I also often find the production process too intricate.
Jelmer: We look for new possibilities, but we sometimes think that it would have been handy to have that technical knowledge.
Kirsten: You look for other solutions, but that can sometimes be a struggle due to the lack of knowledge.
How do you move from autonomous work to serial work?
Kirsten: Normally I start. The limited, freer work is in my head. That is something I want to do and I just do it. I then see how that work can be translated into smaller work that is unlimited and has to be affordable.
Jelmer: But as soon as you have ideas we discuss them together. And together we look to see what we are going to make and how. Starting from the bigger concept we look at the forms that appeal to us. The jewellery series flow almost automatically from there. For instance, we literally take one element or part of a work with which we then make something new.
Kirsten: It is a kind of deconstruction. Serial work emerges through a process of subtraction and abstraction. I know very quickly how the bigger, free work is going to look. But for me a jewel in an unlimited edition involves a lot of research and experimentation. Jelmer and I pay a lot of attention to the fact that it remains something special. That is why it sometimes takes a while before we get it right.
Kirsten: Normally I start. The limited, freer work is in my head. That is something I want to do and I just do it. I then see how that work can be translated into smaller work that is unlimited and has to be affordable.
Jelmer: But as soon as you have ideas we discuss them together. And together we look to see what we are going to make and how. Starting from the bigger concept we look at the forms that appeal to us. The jewellery series flow almost automatically from there. For instance, we literally take one element or part of a work with which we then make something new.
Kirsten: It is a kind of deconstruction. Serial work emerges through a process of subtraction and abstraction. I know very quickly how the bigger, free work is going to look. But for me a jewel in an unlimited edition involves a lot of research and experimentation. Jelmer and I pay a lot of attention to the fact that it remains something special. That is why it sometimes takes a while before we get it right.
What then is the difference between ‘big’ and ‘small’ work?
Jelmer: An everyday piece of jewellery, what we call ‘small’ work, cannot stand out too much and has to be easy to wear.
Kirsten: The wearable jewels are certainly the most difficult, although they often look less ‘treated’. More accessible work raises other questions. People are more critical because they want to wear it every day.
Jelmer: An everyday piece of jewellery, what we call ‘small’ work, cannot stand out too much and has to be easy to wear.
Kirsten: The wearable jewels are certainly the most difficult, although they often look less ‘treated’. More accessible work raises other questions. People are more critical because they want to wear it every day.
Do you look into what catches on and what does not?
Jelmer: A fair will soon tell you what is seen as attractive and what is not.
Kirsten: For example, this pendant was in fact meant to be on a short chain, since we discovered that something like that sells better. But I am still going to use a longer chain, because I find that more beautiful. But it will be a silver chain, because that sells a lot better.
Jelmer: A fair will soon tell you what is seen as attractive and what is not.
Kirsten: For example, this pendant was in fact meant to be on a short chain, since we discovered that something like that sells better. But I am still going to use a longer chain, because I find that more beautiful. But it will be a silver chain, because that sells a lot better.
Are silver and gold jewels still seen as more expensive?
Kirsten: Yes, that is how it works and that is how it still is. Precious metals still have added value and that is not something you can get rid of easily. Unless everyone suddenly has a different value judgement.
Kirsten: Yes, that is how it works and that is how it still is. Precious metals still have added value and that is not something you can get rid of easily. Unless everyone suddenly has a different value judgement.
What is your target group?
Kirsten: Our public is very diverse, both ladies and students. People who are aware of art, design and fashion. Fine jewels for fine ladies, big jewels for big ladies.
Kirsten: Our public is very diverse, both ladies and students. People who are aware of art, design and fashion. Fine jewels for fine ladies, big jewels for big ladies.
Do you have to make concessions?
Kirsten: Of course, and at all levels. We always try to stick to the concept, but we also always have to make concessions. It is a lot more difficult to make a nice series and not just a single piece, because a series has to be simultaneously interesting, easy to wear and sellable. With a unique piece not many people raise questions, because it is considered art. And it is even more difficult if you start thinking about how much it is going to cost to make the jewel.
Kirsten: Of course, and at all levels. We always try to stick to the concept, but we also always have to make concessions. It is a lot more difficult to make a nice series and not just a single piece, because a series has to be simultaneously interesting, easy to wear and sellable. With a unique piece not many people raise questions, because it is considered art. And it is even more difficult if you start thinking about how much it is going to cost to make the jewel.
You see yourselves as entrepreneurs. Yet there seems to be a contradiction between the traditional work process you use and the goal you want to achieve, i.e., selling and making money?
Kirsten: I charge a certain amount per hour that is quite high, but quite realistic. I take into account our profit margin and how long I have been working as a jewellery designer. In addition, the work is not as work intensive as you would imagine. Jelmer and I have been at this material [synthetic material, ed.] and technique [working with moulds, ed.] for a while, so the actual production does not have to take so long.
Kirsten: I charge a certain amount per hour that is quite high, but quite realistic. I take into account our profit margin and how long I have been working as a jewellery designer. In addition, the work is not as work intensive as you would imagine. Jelmer and I have been at this material [synthetic material, ed.] and technique [working with moulds, ed.] for a while, so the actual production does not have to take so long.
Does the work process influence the choices you make?
Kirsten: Not from the very beginning of the work process, but it does from the reproducible series. We have already put so much time and money in its development that we do not want to abandon it all too quickly.
Jelmer: We also have a lot of new ideas using the same technique.
Kirsten: Not from the very beginning of the work process, but it does from the reproducible series. We have already put so much time and money in its development that we do not want to abandon it all too quickly.
Jelmer: We also have a lot of new ideas using the same technique.
What do you think of new technologies?
Kirsten: We do not have any 3D printers.
Jelmer: I do not rule out computers, but only if it is not visible in the end product. Everything can be printed in 3D, but for me it is important that the work ‘lives on’ and has its own character and signature. That is why we also always imagine things that can never be perfect.
Kirsten: We met during a craftsman furniture-making training and the handwork that was then so important is now present everywhere. If you make work yourself, an incredible number of things go wrong. It is precisely those little accidents that ensure that the work has soul. That is not something you can discover if you only work with computers.
Kirsten: We do not have any 3D printers.
Jelmer: I do not rule out computers, but only if it is not visible in the end product. Everything can be printed in 3D, but for me it is important that the work ‘lives on’ and has its own character and signature. That is why we also always imagine things that can never be perfect.
Kirsten: We met during a craftsman furniture-making training and the handwork that was then so important is now present everywhere. If you make work yourself, an incredible number of things go wrong. It is precisely those little accidents that ensure that the work has soul. That is not something you can discover if you only work with computers.
Tell us about the manufacturing process.
Jelmer: Kirsten finishes both the serial work and the individual pieces.
Kirsten: I take care of a large stock in a couple of days. After that the moulds are always ready so that at any moment work can be produced, but we are never going to manage to produce huge quantities.
Jelmer: I do not want to become a manager. I want to make things.
Kirsten: As a unique piece, this bracelet would cost 2,000 euro. I am now making 9 pieces and it costs 700 euro. That is affordable and still limited. I do not want to do it for nothing, but I want everyone to be able to afford one. I make moulds anyway and it brings in more money.
Jelmer: Kirsten finishes both the serial work and the individual pieces.
Kirsten: I take care of a large stock in a couple of days. After that the moulds are always ready so that at any moment work can be produced, but we are never going to manage to produce huge quantities.
Jelmer: I do not want to become a manager. I want to make things.
Kirsten: As a unique piece, this bracelet would cost 2,000 euro. I am now making 9 pieces and it costs 700 euro. That is affordable and still limited. I do not want to do it for nothing, but I want everyone to be able to afford one. I make moulds anyway and it brings in more money.
Do you see ZWARD as a brand?
Jelmer: Branding is a special trade. We should be doing it, but at present we are not doing anything like that.
Kirsten: Selling your own work is the most difficult thing there is. You are always too modest about your own work. You would need an agent for sales and marketing.
Jelmer: You need someone else to tell you that you do good work.
Kirsten: Showing your face a lot is what ultimately makes you known, together with the production of recognizable work. Unfortunately we do not have any time for branding at the moment, but we should take care of it.
Jelmer: Branding is a special trade. We should be doing it, but at present we are not doing anything like that.
Kirsten: Selling your own work is the most difficult thing there is. You are always too modest about your own work. You would need an agent for sales and marketing.
Jelmer: You need someone else to tell you that you do good work.
Kirsten: Showing your face a lot is what ultimately makes you known, together with the production of recognizable work. Unfortunately we do not have any time for branding at the moment, but we should take care of it.
Are there agents for this kind of work?
Kirsten: Yes, a lot. Offices or freelancers that represent a kind of ‘look’ with which they associate clothes and jewels. Agents take a percentage or work on commission. They also take care of publications.
Kirsten: Yes, a lot. Offices or freelancers that represent a kind of ‘look’ with which they associate clothes and jewels. Agents take a percentage or work on commission. They also take care of publications.
How does that work then?
Kirsten: If you look in magazines, you have to pay attention to who does the styling. They are the people you have to approach. Still, you do not only need to know the important people. It can also be very interesting to network with like-minded people or people your own age to do things together or to motivate one another.
Jelmer: For instance, we have been asked to make a suitable collection for a line of clothes. We got this commission through our network of friends.
Kirsten: If you look in magazines, you have to pay attention to who does the styling. They are the people you have to approach. Still, you do not only need to know the important people. It can also be very interesting to network with like-minded people or people your own age to do things together or to motivate one another.
Jelmer: For instance, we have been asked to make a suitable collection for a line of clothes. We got this commission through our network of friends.
How important is photography?
Jelmer: We do the product photography ourselves. And for the rest we always work with the same photographers. We outsource what we cannot do ourselves.
Kirsten: We are control freaks. For the photographs too we want to be on top of things. For instance we choose the model, asking for a model starting out that still works for free. Or we trade a jewel for a photo shoot.
Jelmer: We do the product photography ourselves. And for the rest we always work with the same photographers. We outsource what we cannot do ourselves.
Kirsten: We are control freaks. For the photographs too we want to be on top of things. For instance we choose the model, asking for a model starting out that still works for free. Or we trade a jewel for a photo shoot.
And the website?
Kirsten: I am not happy yet with our website because we have not put enough thought into it.
Jelmer: We have to improve it, make it more accessible, but that takes a lot of time.
Kirsten: I am not happy yet with our website because we have not put enough thought into it.
Jelmer: We have to improve it, make it more accessible, but that takes a lot of time.
There are no prices on the website, although your aim is to sell, no?
Jelmer: I see the website as a portfolio, not as an online shop. I find it important that it is about the work.
Kirsten: We also get e-mails with questions about prices, mostly from people who have seen our work elsewhere. ‘Pricing’ is in any case a lot of work and with the fluctuating value of the precious metals, it is difficult to determine prices. That is why there are no prices on the website. If retail merchants buy jewels from ZWARD, the work is theirs. Then setting the right price is their responsibility. We would rather not work on consignment, but in this age almost no one wants to take in pieces.
Jelmer: I see the website as a portfolio, not as an online shop. I find it important that it is about the work.
Kirsten: We also get e-mails with questions about prices, mostly from people who have seen our work elsewhere. ‘Pricing’ is in any case a lot of work and with the fluctuating value of the precious metals, it is difficult to determine prices. That is why there are no prices on the website. If retail merchants buy jewels from ZWARD, the work is theirs. Then setting the right price is their responsibility. We would rather not work on consignment, but in this age almost no one wants to take in pieces.
How do you see the future?
Kirsten: First of all we want to have more sales points. I did not follow a regular jewellery design training, which means we do not immediately belong in the gallery world. So we have to work hard on other sales possibilities. I have the impression that things will work out in the end in the Netherlands. We also want to get involved in more collaborations, but for that you first need more time and money.
Kirsten: First of all we want to have more sales points. I did not follow a regular jewellery design training, which means we do not immediately belong in the gallery world. So we have to work hard on other sales possibilities. I have the impression that things will work out in the end in the Netherlands. We also want to get involved in more collaborations, but for that you first need more time and money.
What are your objectives?
Kirsten: It is not as easy as we thought. In fact I had expected more, for instance that our work would be on sale in a lot more stores. That has mainly to do with time, or rather the lack of time. We also have very beautiful photos, but reactions are only coming in very slowly. Apparently people need to get their hands on the actual work, a photo alone will not do the trick. Or perhaps the photographs seem ‘too difficult’, ‘too expensive’ or ‘too special’? We do not always understand that.
Kirsten: It is not as easy as we thought. In fact I had expected more, for instance that our work would be on sale in a lot more stores. That has mainly to do with time, or rather the lack of time. We also have very beautiful photos, but reactions are only coming in very slowly. Apparently people need to get their hands on the actual work, a photo alone will not do the trick. Or perhaps the photographs seem ‘too difficult’, ‘too expensive’ or ‘too special’? We do not always understand that.
Do you still make your own work outside ZWARD?
Kirsten: I do not have any time for that at the moment. Besides ZWARD I have a job on the side and together we have a child.
Jelmer: I do something completely different and work a lot on commission. That is naturally a lot more individual. We discuss things in the meantime of course, both my own work and our joint work.
Kirsten: I do not have any time for that at the moment. Besides ZWARD I have a job on the side and together we have a child.
Jelmer: I do something completely different and work a lot on commission. That is naturally a lot more individual. We discuss things in the meantime of course, both my own work and our joint work.
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